Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Dunlop on April 25, 2011 at 2:44pm

Hi Diana,

It may be acceptable, but it is very rare that anyone pays to start a new job.  So, it is natural for people to be skeptical of an opportunity where an up-front payment is required.  For example, there are many scams out there that exist only to collect fees from desperate job seekers.

 

In the examples you cite, the candidate would already have paid the up-front money to a disinterested 3rd party - normally long before applying to a given job.

 

My advice would be for you to be very upfront about the fee.  State in the job posting specifically that "this opportunity requires prospective employees to successfully complete studies and written tests to obtain certification as an XXX, the expected cost of this certification is $YYY."

 

Then, job seekers can no longer claim that you scammed them.  However, remember that $800 is a lot of money for some of us folks and that barrier will greatly reduce the number of applicants you should expect.  You could blunt the effect by offering interest free loans that would allow the applicant to repay the loan over a year, for example.

 

Enjoy & good luck,

John

Permalink Reply by Diana Carpenter on April 26, 2011 at 6:40am

I agree with you, but I think what I find most shocking is that the candidate can't simply have a conversation about it.  They start defensive and it gets worse from there.  If they took a few minutes to talk it out, they would completely understand.

 

Interested that I can say that a laptop and smart phone are required and they will go out and buy them.  For roughly the same money they won't take a certification class.

 

I will just have to find a way to speak of it differently so they understand from the start.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Permalink Reply by Terry Canfield on April 26, 2011 at 7:26am

John and Diana,

 

Another approach I have seen is "Indentured Servant" where the applicant agrees to work a certain amount of time for an agreed wage to payback the training provided.  If they leave early there is a cost to them.  This not only legitimizes the training but provides both parties with a window of security.

Permalink Reply by Patrick M. Bopray on April 26, 2011 at 6:43pm

Short version:

Change is scary enough by itself but change combined with something different than they are use to is just too much for some people.

 

Long version:

I feel your pain Diana. For twenty years my client base has consisted of traditional corporations. These companies pay our fees with no questions asked. (They may whine a little but that’s another story)

Recently I have begun recruiting business partners for a non-traditional opportunity. As John suggested I am very up front about the fact that there are costs involved with becoming an independent consultant. And, candidly, people get excited about a chance to cut the apron strings from corporate America and take control of their own destiny. They love the thought of being their own boss until the rubber meets the road and they need take action to change their circumstances.

In my case the investment isn’t necessarily the primary objective. Candidates who just 24 hours earlier were excited about the chance to work to create a revenue stream better than anything corporate America could ever provide them are now “too busy” to consider this type of career. I didn’t realize one could enter into the witness relocation program on their own but that’s what it feels like when trying to reconnect with them based on their perceived interest.

I would like to ask them how long they will be too busy and will they be creating financial and time freedom for themselves while they are “too busy”? Or if, Dancing with the stars, Survivor or some other reality program will be padding their retirement account while they are “too busy”.

I can’t know for sure but what I believe is, while doing their research one of a couple of things happens:

-Either they talk to some one like ‘MOM’ (that’s funny) or a neighbor or friend who have zero Intel on the opportunity but feels qualified to make a negative blanket statement about the position based on…. ??? (Ask MOM or their neighbor if they will be funding his retirement account for him)

Or
- They realize that if they invest in themselves there will then be an expectation not only to study and get certified but to have to actually put forth an effort and be judged (paid for)on their efforts. Many people are just not willing commit to being held accountable for their own success or lack thereof.

With one of John’s suggestion in mind, if you do find some one who is legitimately interested but just doesn’t have the money to invest in themselves. I have made people with good credit aware of a credit card program with a one year zero interest program. Let me know if you would like that information.

There is just not much you can do other than be very candid with them. Obviously you don’t want to insult them by pointing out that they are telling you they want to be successful and are willing to put forth the effort to do so but that their actions don’t match their words. Somehow you need to find some way of getting them off of the dime. If you find the magic formula I’m all ears. Good luck! : )

Permalink Reply by Michael J. Wright on June 19, 2011 at 4:37pm

There has been at least one scam I know of where someone advertises a job position, and when you send your resume and cover letter they get back to you and say they have a high demand and will get back to you... then about a month later one of their "engineers" contacts you about moving the interview to the next level by first taking a basic competency test... doesn't sound unusual at all until you're directed to the test, which claims all its answers come from a book you must pay $20 for. Now granted $20 doesn't sound like a great deal of money... but you buy it and the book turns out to be a surveyor field manual from 30 years ago. You pass the test, but don't hear from them for another three months.... in which they say they'd like to take the interview to the next level.... I looked this up and it turned out to be a scam. It was MCPI Construction or something to that effect.

Permalink Reply by robert frank on June 15, 2012 at 12:24pm

It all seems to depend on the career field, and who the fees are going to, and what they are for. If the job requires licensing, then the fee would go to a state or federal licensing agency, or something similar. In that case, it is fair and logical to expect the employee to pay that fee when it comes due. (Just give them ample warning up front.) 

In some cases or crafts the person needs to bring his own tools, similar to an auto mechanic providing some of his/her own tools.

Similarly, if the business is going to hire someone, it seems that organization should be willing to also take a risk and make an investment in the employee. The employee might be expected to pass a licensing exam within a given amount of time, but the training cost, in most cases, it seems should be carried by the employer.

If there is a cost to simply be hired, and the fee goes to the employer, I would tend to be very skeptical. It's almost like a multilevel sort of arrangement.

There are a lot of unknowns here. So, it seems to all depend on the situation.

Permalink Reply by Patrick M. Bopray on June 15, 2012 at 1:19pm

I don't mean to hijack Dianna's thread but I don't think she'll mind. : )
With 20 + years in the employment industry I am always curious as to peoples experiences and perceptions of any portion of the hiring process. I completely understand skepticism associated with a "fee" that goes directly to an employer as part of the hiring process but I am confident that is not what Dianna was referring to.
You said one thing that has me perplexed, would you be so kind as to explain what you mean by: "It's almost like a multilevel sort of arrangement." It’s a fairly nebulous statement with potential to influence an uninformed person’s opinion on an entire industry.
Thanks, I appreciate your input.

Permalink Reply by Diana Carpenter on June 15, 2012 at 2:52pm

considering I wrote the original over a year ago...hijack away! :)

I am too tired to reread what I wrote and all the replies at the moment...sorry!

Permalink Reply by Robert Frank on June 16, 2012 at 5:03pm

Apparently I miisinterpretted the presupposition or question. My bad.

I would agree, if there is clear communication up front that the employee will need to have certification or will need to pay the cost to earn that certification, or take certain training... That's fine.

For some it might be scary because they currently have no income, they don't know if they can afford it, and they don't know if they will be successful.

On the other hand (my misinterpretation), if the  employer is charging a potential employee a fee to be hired and the money goes to the employer, or to pay for products from that company, I'm skeptical.

Hope that makes sense. The critical issue is clear communication up front... as you noted.

On the otherhand,

 

 

 It seems rather odd. Maybe I'm too old school. Anytime I've been hired, it